Who really killed President Shinra...(spoiler alert)
ok, bigtime spoiler alert dont read on if u don't wanna find out some of the games storyline.
I had never really thought about this untill recently but.....
At the end of disc 2, the reunion, we find out that sephiroth has been sealed just north of the forgoten city. This leads me to ask the question who killed president Shinra.?
There are a few posible explinations the first and what i consider most plusable is that it was jenova.
Dont remember off the top of my head what floor its on possably 60 but after leaving the cell in shinra HQ the thing which had previously held jenova is now empty and upon examination it says somthing like "looks like it has been clawed open from the inside" which means it wasn't let out by Sephiroth (who is sealed north of forgoten city at the time) but managed to get out itself.
I think its Palmer whos there when you discover the presidents body and he says he says somthing like he was someone wearing a black cloak that he thinks was sephiroth kill the president, he might even say he saw sephroth i dont remember. But later in the game we find out sephroth has the ability to project an image of himself, an example is when he gets cloud to hant over the black materia after the temple of ancients. At this part this isn't sephiroth himselt (still sealed at this point) he is appering and dissapering and is slightly transparent, so from this we can conclude sephiroth has that ability (some sort of mental projection). So this can explain why palmer says he saw him when he simply couldnt have been there.
With this in mind if you think about all the times when you are chasing sephiroth around over disc 1 and 2. Each time you see him, or an image of him that disapears, you end up fighting jenova. i.e the boat from Junon harbor you see this image of sephiroth then figh jenova Birth. When Aeris dies we see what we think is sephiroth killing her then we fight Jenova Life. Lastly, the crater, quote from guide book "the team bumps into sephiroth just as he's killing a few shrouded figures. He disappears for a moment, but then launches a sneak attack from above" the very next bit in the guide is the fight with jenova death.
I would say from this its fair to say that Sephiroth has influence over Jenova, if jenova is there fighting his battles he mush have. So In the Shina HQ I conclude that it was jenova, with Sephiroth's influence, who opened Cloud's cell (remember Sephiroth wants cloud free so he can make it to the reunion with the hooded clones) and killed the president.
Im interested in hearing what people think of this.
you cant remember it because you played it a long time ago.
i replayed it this year.
When they get to that part that they discover that the real Zephirot was in the crater. They say something about the other Zephirot being an actual clone that Shojo created (wich died somehow cant remember, i think it was right at that time, he fell into the lifestream with the real zephirot or something like that, really cant remember thought)
but i do remember that since i just played it, the clone killed the president (they look exactly the same the whole game long so dont expect to diferentiate them) and the real one doesnt really apears until the northen crater were cloud disapears.
i played it through probably about 6 months ago but it wasn't till after i started thinking about who killed him so i wasn't really paying much attention. As far as im aware the only thing Hojo says at the reunion is somthing about it being ironic that the only clone that made it was Cloud and he was a failure. I would be very supprised if he mentions specifics about the clone killing the president and such. I thought he just said they had been following clones refuring to the black caped men. I didn't think he said anything about a specific clone?
"I don't think you're supposed to smoke during class."
"This isn't a cigarette. It's just a lollipop."
"Lollipops don't make any smoke."
"No, that's just 'cause it's so lollied."
Arc wrote:
i can see lj possibly really finding excitement in killing or torturing someone
square_fan wrote:
Like Robin Williams once said.."I haven't seen LJ around in awhile....WTF IS HE PLANNING?"
Advent Children is a MOVIE based in this GAME, and no wonder... That both of President Shinra and Rufus are alive... If they weren´t, the movie could have much less storyline...
Advent Children is a MOVIE based in this GAME, and no wonder... That both of President Shinra and Rufus are alive... If they weren´t, the movie could have much less storyline...
President Shinra is alive in Advent Children? Did you really watch the movie? The movie was about 2 years ago after they kill sephiroth so there's no way that president shinra is alive....Sorry to tell you Nerthul but i never see him in there ...only his son Rufus which becomes the new boss is there....
one more thing weaponschippo i agree in your theory that sephiroth has some influence over jenova....I really cant say that he has the mind projection ability that you said cause it was never been explained or talk about in the game...Morelikely dont you think Jenova is the one projecting the image of sephiroth?
Yeah Shinra isn't in Advent Children, Rufus somehow survives the weapons attack on midgar but there isn't any mention of Shinra surviving a Sword in the back, you see him dead.
Gust, you may be right about it being Jenova projecting the images, i always assumed it was Sephiroth because the projections that talk to cloud seem to have Sephiroths knowledge e.g it talks about cloud not being in Neblehiem on the mission with Soilder.
This is what i think hmm when sephiroth fall from the lifestream(whatever you call it) in the mako reactor he's holding jenova ...there's probably some reaction between the two maybe they're mind got interwined and jenova absorbs everything about sephiroth...thought this is only my speculation feel free to tell me what you think...
Its a good point, and there certainly are some good points to back it up.
in the north crater sephiroth says "The ability to change one's
looks, voice, and words, is the power of Jenova."
Also when Aeris is killed the form of sephiroth says "Because you..." but then in the dialogue box it's Jenova
who finishes the line "...are just a puppet".
then you have to fight jenova, this implys it was Jenova in sephiroths form that did it.
So basically Jenova is living with the thought of sephiroth?>..If my theory is correct that only means that jenova was just a container of sephiroth's thoughts...Jenova is only a carrier of what sephiroth intends to do....Which leads to another question....Did sephiroth plan all this? Jenova was just a mere tool for him?
"I don't think you're supposed to smoke during class."
"This isn't a cigarette. It's just a lollipop."
"Lollipops don't make any smoke."
"No, that's just 'cause it's so lollied."
Arc wrote:
i can see lj possibly really finding excitement in killing or torturing someone
square_fan wrote:
Like Robin Williams once said.."I haven't seen LJ around in awhile....WTF IS HE PLANNING?"
Yea you have the right idea...just by using the facts in the game there's really no way it can only be Sephiroth with fighting Jenova everytime and her talking to you...BUT...this is what I think
I don't think it's only Jenova....it helped when I read an FAQ on this and it really got some ideas into my head
I also believe because Sephiroth's will and soul was so strong that he was able to combine that with Jenova and creating the projection of himself that carried Jenova around with him...I could go on but I won't for now
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