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 User is Offline Orothe   Post Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 12:10 pm
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Lara wrote:
trying to compare pixelated characters’ powers and limits to what’s logic is ridiculous to begin with.


That's what I said to begin with, so for Seraph to agree with her would be agreeing with my original post/statement. =P

AND ABOUT FINAL FANTASY DISSIDIA...
It'll be comming out mid-year THIS year for the PSP (Like leon said)... HOWEVER...
I am hopeing from now till then there is a working PSP Emulator, as well as a Rom as soon as the game is released... If I can get them both to work together, I'll post the links on where to get them so we can all play. =P

And for those that aren't that computer smart, Emulator(s) are programs that mimic the programming of earlier consoles... Such as a Game Boy Advance emulator will allow you to play Game Boy Advnace games on your computer... But where would the catridge go? No need! A Rom is the digitial copy of that game! Download an Emulator, download a Rom, and you're in! (They also don't take up much space either)

It's not nearly as complicated as it sounds... However due to legal reasons (I don't want this site getting into trouble) Rom's are for those that own the game already, and are for commercial use/free advertisement and NOT to replace the actual game..

Though.. just a personal OPINION (And to not be taken as a legal statement in any way, shape, or form) but unlike Torrents who have trackers, this is downloading Emulator's and Rom's from a website to your computer, and having them completely seperate from your internet.. So once you get them, not like anyone can find out unless you admit to getting one for a game you do not own. =P
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My Romantics shall be thy blade!!!
Orothe wrote:
Beauty can only be defined as the essence you hold, and not by the appearence you give...

Orothe wrote:
A rare gem such as yourself should never be given freely to those that would otherwise tarnish such beauty...

Orothe wrote:
Promise's are just words that people cling to in hopes that they are set in stone, when in reality, are as flexible as the air itself that carried those very words...
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 User is Offline Seraph   Post Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 12:38 pm
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Hahaha, i was laughing so hard man. Lara said "so trying to compare pixelated characters’ powers and limits to what’s logic is ridiculous to begin with. Final Fantasy is far from being logical and so are its characters. ". That means comparing squall or cloud to what is logic (this is where your joint theory or time stopping theory or watever theory comes in) is ridiculous to begin with. He said FF is FAR....FAR...from being logical.

LOL and i obviously dont agree with you Laughing
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 User is Offline LeonPayne   Post Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 9:22 pm
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LeonPayne wrote:
Narrator (from the narrators of Lord of the Ring): After being ignored for the 2nd time, young Leon travels far...in search for a quest...a quest to share his opinions and thoughts about the two classic FF RPG game..called..

*cinematic images and text animations* *Cool BGM*
The theories on FF7 & FF8, studying Cloud and Squall.

*words zooming out from behind fast* *dramatic BGM*
Are those *cough* real?
Why 'Jenova'? We know it sounds cool but man, it doesn't sound scientific enough!
Who designed the lame outfit for Zell?
Why are we talking about Zell when this is Cloud vs Squall topic?
Who want cookies?

*Large Squall and Cloud figure standing side by side with a thunderous background* *intro song playing*
Narrator (King of Fighters Maximum impact 2 narrator): Squuaaarrrrrlllll veeerrrsus Claaaaaaaooouudddd!

Starring, Squall as himself and Cloud as himself....

Round 1, Fight! (based on original voice actions in battle)
Squall: Huark! Heeyak! Hadouken!
Ryu: Thats violating copyright! Hey, I want my lawyer! I'm telling my boss at Capcom!
Squall: Whatever.
Cloud: Hmph, argh! Ugh! Mada-mada (not yet) Watcha, orya, ora-ora heeeeyaaak! *super move sound* Shinkuuuuu~~~ HADOUKEN!
Ryu: Evil or Very Mad
Squall: Urgh, argh, urgh urgh, aaaaaargh. Chikusoooo (japanese slang word)
Player 1 (Seraph): How do I do the Omnislash?
Tutor (Leon): You'll need to charge 3 gauges then, DOWN, DOWN+BACK, BACK, HALF CIRCLE FORWARD + STRONG PUNCH!
Player 2 (Orothe): Hey, hey I have 2 gauges filled up - what move can I do?
Tutor (Leon): (DOWN, DOWN+FORWARD, FORWARD) x 2 then STRONG PUNCH! Its the Blasting Zone move!

(to be continued) Laughing

Squall: Hrggghhhh~~~~ Burasuto zoon! (Blasting zone)
Tutor (Leon): Now rotate the Left analog stick clockwise as much as you can!
Player 2 (Orothe): *rotating the left analog stick like crazy*
Cloud: Argh argh urk! Yomai! (Weak!)
Player 1 (Seraph): Quarter circle back...then...half circle forward and strong punch!
Cloud: Yosh! Limito Breaker! OmniSLARSH!
Squall: Urgh, argh, urgh urgh, aaaaaargh. Kisama~~ (japanese slang word)
Player 2 (Orothe): Hey, hey. Renzokuken and Lionheat moves please!
Tutor (Leon): Quarter circle forward+Circle, Quarter circle back+Square, Quarter circle forward+X, Quarter circle back+(3 x Triangle), Half circle forward + L1 + R1, then *gets kicked out*
Player 2 (Orothe): Just press any button like mad!
Player 1(Seraph): Oh yeah, I can do that too!
Squall: End of hearto...Kan Haato! (Lion Heart)
Cloud: Yosh! Limito Breaker! OmniSLARSH! (Omnislash)
Squall: Yeargh~~~
Cloud: Yeargh~~~
Player 1 (Seraph) & Player 2 (Orothe): Die! Die! *leaps excitedly, bouncing on the sofa*
Tutor (Leon): Hey, hey so who won? Razz *tripped the PSP to TV connector wire*
*TV screen turned blank*

(to be continued)
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 User is Offline Seraph   Post Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 10:56 pm
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good point leon. funny and spot on.
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 User is Offline Orothe   Post Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 12:29 pm
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Sorry to burst your bubble Seraph but...
Orothe wrote:
I understand both are in a fantasy world.. IF you want to get technical, they are both programming from a computer and you only see them through different colored pixels, so to say "this group of colored pixels could beat this other group of colored pixels" is ridiculious.. Either you personify them as people or you don't...
That was my second post, which does agree with what Lara says.. And as much as you agree with Lara, then that means you agree with me through her on mutual subject(s). XD
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My Romantics shall be thy blade!!!
Orothe wrote:
Beauty can only be defined as the essence you hold, and not by the appearence you give...

Orothe wrote:
A rare gem such as yourself should never be given freely to those that would otherwise tarnish such beauty...

Orothe wrote:
Promise's are just words that people cling to in hopes that they are set in stone, when in reality, are as flexible as the air itself that carried those very words...
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 User is Offline Seraph   Post Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 1:14 pm
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Orothe, why not save yourself some respect? You obviously tried to argue that FF 8 is more logical than FF 7. Lara said that they're both not logical and you argued with your lame theories and all.

My whole point with you was that, both are games and they're not logical. Only you went ahead and justifying every single dam thing in the game. Look back your post Smile YOu said that FF 8 is more realistic. Lara said that the only thing FF 8 seems real is its graphics Smile
So pls orothe, you may just stop your desperate act. Grow up.

Ps : burst my bubbles? lol u looked like a fool than ever before
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 User is Offline Orothe   Post Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 3:15 pm
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Seraph wrote:
lol u looked like a fool than ever before
Yet again, lack of grammer and punctuation... You're young and obviously have proved me right of the example with the 2+2 and you deny to your heart's content.

Laura did say the only thing in FF8 that was logical was the graphics.. However swords are logical, so that automatically justifies/counters t hat point.. Not to mention the fact you agree'd with her and not with just one thing she said. Which ment you agreed with the FF8 and FF7 are just pixels.. Which would be exactly what I said in the quote, on how Cloud Vs Sephiroth and a subject on it is poitnless because they aren't real. Either you look at them as people or don't. If you do'nt, you agree'd with my quote (2nd post, not first, sorry), Or if you look at them as people, then you must look at physics, of which you have even stated yourself
Seraph wrote:
Only you went ahead and justifying every single dam thing in the game
Of which I would say I made my point, regardless if you agree or not, or chose to acknowledge it or not...

To continue to deny and resort to insults just proves your age, immaturity, and ignorance of debate.
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My Romantics shall be thy blade!!!
Orothe wrote:
Beauty can only be defined as the essence you hold, and not by the appearence you give...

Orothe wrote:
A rare gem such as yourself should never be given freely to those that would otherwise tarnish such beauty...

Orothe wrote:
Promise's are just words that people cling to in hopes that they are set in stone, when in reality, are as flexible as the air itself that carried those very words...
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 User is Offline Seraph   Post Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 8:48 pm
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Yet again, lack of proper spelling and grammar. You're young and obviously have proved me right of the example with the 2+2 and you deny to your heart's content. Look at yourself, LOL.

To be honest with you, I'm severely confused by your statement now and it is understandable because you're trying to cover up. I am just thankful that the whole cloud is not human, squall is more human or ff8 more logical than ff7 nonsense are over. Any more than this is just wasting my time.

I think i repeated this many times over, i look at them as game characters. To me, FF 7 and 8 are both not logical. On the other hand, you argued like a kid that FF 8 is more logical and the whole crap is unfair. Obviously you make little sense.

Therefore the matter is already closed.
One funny thing that you wrote " Cloud Vs Sephiroth and a subject on it is poitnless because they aren't real". Final Fantasy are not real, so a subject on it is pointless? That is not this forum is all about. Besides, I think we enjoy discussing every aspect of Final Fantasy even though they may not be real. If you feel that it is pointless, you have a choice not to participate. Arrow [EXIT}

Also speaking of physics, our law of physics cannot have direct application on a FF world as they may have their very own law of physics/nature, so you may only make assumption here and there.

You made your point, i am sorry because i am unable to agree, disagree or acknowledge it,
i had to deny it because it doesnt have any sense and disrespectful to the person who started this thread together with everyone who have participated. Also, you've said it yourself, Resort to insult just proves your age, immaturity and ignorance of a debate.
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 User is Offline Orothe   Post Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 12:08 am
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Seraph wrote:
To be honest with you, I'm severely confused by your statement
Allow me to explain... That was the second time I pointed out that you do not use proper spelling and punctuation... A mistake here and there is acceptable, because everyone makes typo's, but to have 2 or 3 or even more in one sentence is childish... So it's just funny when you call someone young while you type like someone who hasn't hit high-school yet. Now that I have spelled this out, do you understand?

Seraph wrote:
To me, FF 7 and 8 are both not logical
If they are both not logical, how is taking a character from each, and making them fight eachother logical?

Seraph wrote:
Besides, I think we enjoy discussing every aspect of Final Fantasy even though they may not be real.
If I did not enjoy discussing the matter of Final Fantasy, would I still be participating in this forum?

Seraph wrote:
Also speaking of physics, our law of physics cannot have direct application on a FF world as they may have their very own law of physics/nature, so you may only make assumption here and there.
that is a nice try, but incorrect. Comets falling, characters landing after a jump, and lift-off needed for orbit are all proof that Gravity is indeed in effect in the game world. Though a spell such as "Stop" may be very illogical in both worlds, it does show that there IS time in that world. All my facts, opinions, and comments are purely based of what I've seen from both games. I assure you, they are not assumptions.

Seraph wrote:
i had to deny it because it doesnt have any sense and disrespectful to the person who started this thread together with everyone who have participated. Also, you've said it yourself, Resort to insult just proves your age, immaturity and ignorance of a debate.
If what I said made no sense to you, then please ask for a better explanation instead of arguing before understanding. Understanding both sides is key to any debate. Also I see participation in this thread as promoting the person who started it, not disrespecting them or anyone else who has participated. And yes, I am glad you agree that insult just proves your age, immaturity, and ignorance of the debate. So please stick to countering my points and try to not assume I am younger than you, call anyone a fool, or tell anyone to
Seraph wrote:
Grow up.
It is just rude and hinders our progress on this debate.
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My Romantics shall be thy blade!!!
Orothe wrote:
Beauty can only be defined as the essence you hold, and not by the appearence you give...

Orothe wrote:
A rare gem such as yourself should never be given freely to those that would otherwise tarnish such beauty...

Orothe wrote:
Promise's are just words that people cling to in hopes that they are set in stone, when in reality, are as flexible as the air itself that carried those very words...
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 User is Offline LeonPayne   Post Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 5:16 am
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Erm, guys? I think we should call it an end for the diversion of the topic discussion. Yeah, it was surely interesting with the theories and assumptions about the two worlds but I don't see the topic is as interesting as before. The comments are going in circles, first we talk both world are illogical then we repeat talking about how logic one world to another by comparing with the real word. Then we'll come to a conclusion saying its just a fantasy game, nothing to do with life and death, nothing to do with real life physics, etc. I think this is a comedy in a way, also irritating if looked in another aspect - cause we're not getting anywhere at this point.

Why don't you two stop and lets just admit what is so called the truth, FF7 and FF8 are freakin' games. We can enjoy making lots of theories and assumptions about the game comparing with the real life things BUT for god sake, its just a freakin' FANTASY GAME! Omg, only psycho and freak nerds will think the game is real - and it so called crazy obsession. You get mad thinking its real when its not.

People who thinks FF7 is real does things like this:
1. Collects colorful marbles and name them Materias, attaching them to your clothes.
2. Wearing a very bright contact lenses, then say they're infused with Mako.
3. Starting a group of gangsters at school naming the group, Turks.
4. Dyeing your dog in red and tattooing XII, naming it Nanaki.
5. Jumps to your neighbor's back yard and start singing the random battle music.
6. Playing FF7 for 50 hours or more NON-STOP, next day appearing in news paper main headline: "Teenager died from playing video game for 50 hours Non-Stop!"

People who thinks FF8 is real does things like this:
1. Scars own face with a kitchen knife, and call himself Squall Leonheart.
2. Brings a Smith & Wesson M3000 Sawed Off Spring Shotgun to school illegally, then flirts with the college girls around - swinging the shotgun around, ignoring the panicked teachers.
3. Tattooing face with strange artwork, then bringing a bizarre amount of lunch boxes containing hot dogs.
4. Seen muttering spell chants over neighbor's irritating dog, hoping to turn it into a card.
5. Enters the opposite sex's washroom then start singing the random battle music.
6. Drools over hot blonde teachers in class, muttering 'Quistis, Quistis'.
7. Picks up fight with the campus' most dangerous gang then performs the stance to summon a GF.

Orothe, I think its time to accept the fact that all FF games are illogical but its not impossible to make Squall and Cloud fight each other in another illogical world right? ^^ What we've been discussing till now is the fight between those two fantasy characters in a illogical (fantasy based) way. Unless someone took it bloody seriously and start performing simulations real life over computer programming. Laughing

Seraph, I think this topic has already came to a conclusion but the point on who will win between Squall and Cloud still remains unknown - no point in arguing and debating over something which goes in circle. In the other party wants to make it a cycle, break it and just ignore it.

Of course we can make theories and assumptions over something illogical and fantasy-like things based on real life physics and other scientific view BUT its so not wise to carry it too far or too deep into the game. Like I said, its really really not wise to compare real life physics with game physics. I just want everyone here to have a healthy thinking and emotions, we're all sane here right? There's a limit to where and how we can differentiate between the real and fantasy.

Lastly, I would like to take back my statement about Squall will win if they both fight (I voted this long long time ago hehe) - well, situations changed and after hearing all the comments and confirmed by games like FF Dissidia...I think they're both equal. It really depends on who use them, if you're good - I think even Zidane or Tidus could beat those two.
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 User is Offline Seraph   Post Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 11:17 am
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Leon, did you hear someone barking as you're typing that long post? Oh nvm, it's insignificant Laughing

Yeah i agree with you Leon, we were having a great time discussing about who will win until we got sidetracked. Seriously, that was my biggest regret in life- wasted precious time and energy. Lets continue with the thread. There are many trees in this world, we should put up a sign so that dogs dont end up barking at the wrong tree.

Btw leon, are you for real? teenager died from playing video games? I read news about online gamers died after spending long hours in a cyber cafe but never video games. LOL

As for Cloud vs Squall, thanks to your video, squall might be tougher than i thought he was. It is a tough call. You know what im thinking? what if cloud is equipped with the "Mime" materia when fighting squall. Uh oh. haha

Tidus and Zidane..hohoho, that's another possibility. lets make it clear, they're both not logical and it may be pointless. Lets discuss anw, I think Tidus will kick ass with his Hastega and quick hit. CLoud or Squall will get pawned until they finally get their turn. LOL Twisted Evil
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 User is Offline Shuun   Post Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 12:16 pm
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Tidus has sphere grid.. maxed stats with break hp, damage mp limits?... GG guys...
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 User is Offline LeonPayne   Post Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 12:32 pm
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If Tidus uses his stats from FFX battle system (the sphere grid) and the scary part is its maximized...then maybe it'll take 1.25 seconds for Tidus to finish off Squall and Cloud in a single hit (exlcuding intro BGM and delay phases)

Tidus: "Oh yeah!" or "Told ya" Laughing

But if Tidus in FF Dissidia...then, thats another story.

Really a GG like shuun says, cheers. Tidus is just like another boss to Squall's and Cloud's world.
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 User is Offline Orothe   Post Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 2:10 pm
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Alright then, illogical games in an illogical world means we can't say who will win, we can only guess.. Because in an illogicl world with no physics (Though how I explained how gravity works), that means one set of pixels could disperse, leaving the image of, let's say Sephiroth's head floating in mid air, and the rest of his body moving and swinging his sword... Or let's say one cuts off another's limbs, since it is only pixels, they could easily just move their body to where their arm was, and they'd be whole again.. It'd be an endless battle..

So the winner is? Nobody.. It's a draw.. The loser, however, is the person playing the game, because no matter how many times you beat someone, there is always the 'reset' button. >.>

Though then again, you could look at it as they both had fun so they both win, but in terms of who survived and who died it's a draw, because their death is only temporary and based off an assumption that their pixels are no longer there (Defeated and vanished), dispersed (Limb or head cut off), or are on the floor which isn't a floor at all, but just a bunch of pixels colored the same in a row...
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My Romantics shall be thy blade!!!
Orothe wrote:
Beauty can only be defined as the essence you hold, and not by the appearence you give...

Orothe wrote:
A rare gem such as yourself should never be given freely to those that would otherwise tarnish such beauty...

Orothe wrote:
Promise's are just words that people cling to in hopes that they are set in stone, when in reality, are as flexible as the air itself that carried those very words...
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 User is Offline Seraph   Post Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 9:44 pm
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Hm..i think it is tough to determine the winner because we must consider the environment in which they fight. If the fight is held in FF Dissidia then it might be easy. They are equal and depends pretty much on the player who controls them. Otherwise, it is pretty tough. Some of you said Tidus has grid sphere and no doubt he can be godly if he mastered the whole grid. But Cloud can morph monsters into Power (forgot what it's called) to max out his stats.
The prob is, Tidus can break hp limit and can have 99999 HP. The highest damage my cloud can do is 9999, coupled with the Mastered Double Slash Materia, [9999x4=39996] still may not be enough. Whereas Tidus can have break damage limit that inflict more than 9999 damage.

So strength wise, Tidus got the upperhand. (if we exclude Limit breaks)

Another interesting aspect of the battle is when Cloud and Tidus decided to use Summon/ Aeons. The prob for FF 7 summon materia is that there is always a limit to how many times u can summon whereas aeons can work on their stats. Besides, there are a lot option where Aeons can do such as stats customization , defend, block, overcharge so Aeon will have the upper hand. Haha, but if against ff 7 KOTR...might defeat the whole theory. I think Squall should just keep his GFs Laughing
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