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 User is Offline Orothe   Post Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 11:07 am
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Seraph wrote:
Besides, he was also able to kick ass without having any apparent disability.
I'm lost.. Can you only kick ass with a disability? Like, is a wrestler VS a guy in a wheelchair and unfair fight, cause the wrestler isn't suppose to kick ass without an apparent disability? o.0

Seraph wrote:
Squall was total noob at the beginning and then minutes later..creme de la creme of the dance floor. I'm not science or medical student. neither i am a psychology person. However according to the right thinking man, no one can do that right?
Do you read what the characters say? Right after, Squall says that SeeD's are trained to handle many random/various situations. So he knew how to dance, however he sucked at the beginning because of, nervousness? He obviosly doesn't have very much luck with the ladies, due to his silent/lone-wolf attitude, so that makes sense to me.

Seraph wrote:
Cloud and Squall both living in a ATB system
Not true... the ATB itself is just a tool used to confirm reflex rate... Such as you can't hack and slash.. If you swing a sword, you need time to recover.. Such as pick it back up and look for the enemey before swinging.. the ATB guage itself isn't there. o.0 And the FFVII movie ruined your point.. The movie had many battles, none with ATB. =P So no, they both don't live in that world lol.

Seraph wrote:
We're not importing them from their respective world into a PVP arena. We are making analysis and prediction based on both Cloud and Squall's Combat skill and abilities to determine the winner.
So if they aren't comming from their own worlds, where are they comming from? Are they poofing? Even if you aren't actually putting them in a PVP arena, you are still comparing two people, which does come with a background, which does come from how you grew up and where you grew up. >.> If you just wanted to compare combat abilities, it should be "Cloud Vs Squall. Whose Combat Abilities are better?" But the title dictates two people fighting.

Seraph wrote:
Hence, this is where leon's point come in, in the Kingdom Heart world.
*Looks at first post* Nope, no mention of any battling location, sorry. Just two people fighting.. One from Midgar in Midgar's world, and one from Balamb Garden from Balamb Garden's world.

Seraph wrote:
We dont have a scene where Squall's joint was pierced so we do not know for sure. So assume he cant in CGI, he CAN in normal battle scene so CGI overides the battle scene
Yeah, exactly, if something doesn't happen, we can't say that it's possible. o.0 If he can't in the game, then he can't.. Cloud, however, had a movie, so sucks to be him but that adds an other perspective on him, whether it be fair or not. And I don't know what you're talking about, squall's joint was never pierced in a normal battle scene. o.0

And for a final note, fine, I was corrected that this thread was pointless (Our discussion proved that it was), however it still isn't a fair fight based on backgrounds and the abilities/limitations of the worlds they originate from... And this entire discussion between you and me was to prove that FFVIII's world is more logical and realistic than FFVII's world, however you do not agree.. Well, I countered your points with quotes this time. =P
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 User is Offline Seraph   Post Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 11:57 am
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LOL it was pointless because you're pointless. You've been raising really pointless argument here and there which doesnt justify what you've said. Look at your reply, they're so witless that i dont feel like replying anymore. You've never fully explain what i said and apparently you think it is cool to quote what i said and reply with real lame point. You know what? until the end, you have not prove that FF 8 is a more logical world and that Squall is more human.

The thread irrelevant? sadly that shows how stupid you are because you joined in despite knowing it is irrelevant. dear Human, pls respect your intelligence dont make urself look like a fool. You've skipped some valid points and conclude. Man, work on your argumentation.

You wrote:
I'm lost.. Can you only kick ass with a disability? Like, is a wrestler VS a guy in a wheelchair and unfair fight, cause the wrestler isn't suppose to kick ass without an apparent disability? o.0

Just what are you trying to say? i never said i can only kick ass with disability. He got pierced my dumb friend.

You wrote:
Do you read what the characters say? Right after, Squall says that SeeD's are trained to handle many random/various situations. So he knew how to dance, however he sucked at the beginning because of, nervousness? He obviosly doesn't have very much luck with the ladies, due to his silent/lone-wolf attitude, so that makes sense to me

Do you read what the characters say? He said he can't dance. It is funny coz you're full of logic this-logic that but you can accept that..i'm impressed by your weird sense of logic

You Wrote:
Not true... the ATB itself is just a tool used to confirm reflex rate... Such as you can't hack and slash.. If you swing a sword, you need time to recover.. Such as pick it back up and look for the enemey before swinging.. the ATB guage itself isn't there. o.0 And the FFVII movie ruined your point.. The movie had many battles, none with ATB. =P So no, they both don't live in that world lol.

LOL, did you play Final Fantasy? Every battle in FF is based on ATB. Don't bring in the movies man, i'm talking about games here dude.

You wrote:
Yeah, exactly, if something doesn't happen, we can't say that it's possible. o.0 If he can't in the game, then he can't.. Cloud, however, had a movie, so sucks to be him but that adds an other perspective on him, whether it be fair or not. And I don't know what you're talking about, squall's joint was never pierced in a normal battle scene. o.0

How foolish are you? Cloud had a movie and we love it. Too bad people like you putting things out of perspective.

In the end, you've never countered my argument and you've failed to establish what you wanted to say. You're just playing with the facts and full of nonsensical stuff.
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 User is Offline Seraph   Post Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 12:08 pm
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You wrote that :
Wrong... Watch the movie again... They are small circular spheres you can hold in your hand... "Marbles"... And they may be absorbed by the body, but as you see them use it in the movie, the glowing is still right where it was placed.. So it gets absorbed into the arm, and stays in the arm, and glows in the arm when used, so no it is not absorbed by the body, but the body part where it stays... Or are you saying the entire body absorbs the materia, yet your body knows where you put it and makes that glow a color? o.0

Please man, dont make yourself stupid ok? have you played the game? they wear ARMOR and Weapons which have slots for materia. They absorbed them into those equpiment. Not bodyparts.

You wrote that:
They do draw from monsters, however when they USE it (CAST a spell) it comes from them, does it not? You don't see the monster siting next to them, whom they drew it from, before casting, do you?

Again, how stupid you are dude. They dont come with magic, they have to draw from monsters. You love logical explanation, so when they draw fire, why doesnt the fire burn their body? Oh yes, i do see the monsters sitting next to them when they draw it, i cast it later so yeah. SO?

You Wrote:
Uhm, it's called learning. Maybe you can only know so much at one time? I mean, nobody knows everything, right? And they were talking about how GF affects their memory, but they never came right out and said if they did or didn't, so 'memory' is too vague of a subject to discuss at this point.

Yeah, learn from GFs. LOL..it is the GF who learn and not them.

You wrote:
uh, Summons are way more powerful then spells... And when facing against someone who can bend times, I think you need a bit more than a fireball. >.> And that, I'm not sure, but the same goes for FFVII when they summon, so I miss your point on that one.. So fine, FFVIII loses the "Vanishing when summoned" argument, but so does FFVII. XD

Therefore they're both not logical.

You wrote:
Wow this is easy... They did get their SeeD badge/card when they were approved to be a SeeD, did they not? Wouldn't it be simple for there to be a tracking device on it, along with a pedometer-like feature to measure steps? Not the best way to pay your people based on random steps, but it's logical and realisticly possible, is it not?

yeah, it might come with a thin-layered C4. LAME !

You wrote:
Uhm, not sure who makes them but just because you don't know doesn't make it unrealistic. Someone in Balamb Garden could be making them. Gossip of how Squall and his friends are on some important mission could lead to "Wow, they are so cool and popular! If I made cards about them, surely people would buy them!" Which is completely possible, so that's logical and realisticly possible. =P

Wow , so popular until the whole world have them. Oh wait, somebody from outerspace has them too. Crap

You wrote:
First off, I may have refered to one CGI animation, however it was one from both worlds with similar circumstances that proved my point... And he blanks out and wakes up with bandages... Well the world does have magic and summons... Wouldn't it be possible to heal someone beyond normal medicine?

therefore it is not logical lame/

Final point, u didnt prove anything, there;s still skepticism and doubts. So you can throw your hypothesis out man.
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 User is Offline LeonPayne   Post Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 4:05 pm
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I really wonder if you guys are reading my posts, the points I mentioned about Jenova cells; the fantasy theme of FF7 and FF8; theoretical Cloud features is all based on scientific and logic explanations. FF8 is real? FF7 is not real? Actually both are NOT REAL (I hope anyone can read this). Both FF7 and FF8 are sci-fi fantasy based:

"For Final Fantasy VII and VIII, the setting was sci-fi and the users would voice their opinion saying that they preferred a simple fantasy world. They seem to have a fixed notion of what fantasy means to them, and to them, it encompasses a medieval European world. I wanted to change this idea. What I wanted to do was to expand the definition of what the users thought the word, "fantasy," implied. Going back to a medieval European fantasy didn’t seem to help us advance, so while I was thinking of different world environments, Nojima suggested that he’d like to create a fantasy world that incorporated Asian elements."
-quoted Yoshinori Kitase (Producer FFX)

If anyone wanna argue this point, then go remake your own FF7 or FF8. For crying sake, these people are the CREATORS (get it?) of Final Fantasy. They know more about the games more than we players do.

Actually I wanna quote the theory on materia junctioning, materia is supposed to be junctioned 'onto' the user's equipment or weapon - not 'INTO' the user's equipment. So, its just a theory (no facts) that either FF7 Advent Children Kadaj and the gang junctioning materias into their equipments is not according to the actual materia way of usage in FF7 game OR Kadaj and the gang is a special case. You see, there was many theories on Kadaj, Loz and Yazoo's identity. First, when Sephiroth died at the end of FFVII, his body was blown apart, but his spirit remained. It eventually came together to form three strong pieces of his will, which eventually formed personalities, and became the human-like beings, Kadaj, Yazoo, and Loz. Obviously, they are not human. Their blue-green cat eyes and in-human strength and abilities are proof of this. Because they are spirits, they can junction materias directly into their equipments. There are theories said Kadaj and the gang is just another lab experiment of Shinra. This theory doesn't support the fact during Kadaj's death, his body seems evaporated into particles of the life stream enery force - doesn't look like a normal mortal human death to me. Laughing

Its so not true that FF8 is close to logic because the idea of a normal human applying the theory of relativity and performing acts to create a path that connects two different timelines (the past and the future) is so not logical. What I meant was Ellone herself. However, its not wise to think that FF8's physics are the same as our physics. When we talk of time we tend to think of a series of events 'moving' from the past to the future, where we are always in the 'present' state. It is possible to go back through time, BUT going to the future is not possible. The past exists because we are here at present now, but the future doesn't exist until it happens. Contradicting with the quantum mechanics and general relativity, Ellone had performed something which we can only say exist in a fantasy world.

(continue nxt post)
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 User is Offline LeonPayne   Post Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 4:06 pm
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Actually both FF7 and FF8 are set to be sci-fi fantasy based, like Mr.Yoshinori mentioned because of the existence of these elements:
FF7: Jenova, Jenova cells, Different Planet theory, Mako, Spiritual energies, materia (condensed Mako), Magic (spiritual thoughts of the dead performed in physical way), supersoldiers (genetically engineered Soldiers),etc.
FF8: Time compression, time loop theory, sorcerers, magic, GFs, miraculous recoveries (like Rinoa at space),etc

Orothe wrote:
*Looks at first post* Nope, no mention of any battling location, sorry. Just two people fighting.. One from Midgar in Midgar's world, and one from Balamb Garden from Balamb Garden's world.

Actually if we think small, it'll come up to the solution that the entire post is irrelevant like you mentioned - thats why one of the easiest method of comparing the two heroes is by bringing them to the same world. S.Enix has favoured us for this one, by creating Kingdom Hearts. Unless some smart freak can come up with facts (not theories please), to relate both FF7 and FF8 world together. Then from there, the comparison of Squall and Cloud can be made rather easily. Just a slight correction, its Gaia (The Planet) of FF7...not Midgar world.

Orothe wrote:
Time Travel? We already have most of that figured out besides the Space Time Continuum.. So that's almost possible as it is.

Giving the condition we're travelling back to time, not into the future. Wink Ellone sent Squall and the gang into the future, that already defies logic.

Orothe wrote:
Squall's limit break is instant because even though he runs at the enemy with his sword, do they even move? It may be because it's turn based, but since that's the only time the limit break is done is when nobody else is moving, then the only explanation is that time is stopped...

This one shocked me. Can you explain how time is stopped? (not the STOP spell hehe) Is stopping time logic in the first place? If we relate Einstein's special relativity and general relativity, the concept of time depends on the spatial reference frame of the observer, and the human perception as well as the measurement by instruments such as clocks are different for observers in relative motion. If Squall is about to stop time, it'll affect the whole space too ya know. Other than that, its all fantasy.

I will not touch the issue on whether Cloud resembles a human or not, I used the word resemble here because its only a fantasy game - and in a fantasy game they can use many other non-human race terms. I say it still remains a theoretical point until Jenova cells is explained in factual terms. (don't forget to read the theories on Cloud I posted Sad )
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 User is Offline Orothe   Post Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 6:19 pm
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Wow dude, your replies are hilarious... You never counter my points, though you do agree they are points, and you just make lame comments that are easily arguable.. You're like the kid that says "2+2=3" and everyone in the class is screaming "IT IS FOUR" and you just refuse to believe it...

Seraph wrote:
Don't bring in the movies man, i'm talking about games here dude.

No, you are talking about both characters, of which one of them had a movie that was centered in the same world the game was... To include one and not the other is like believing in god but not faith... I refuse to waste time arguing with you when you can't understand logic when it smacks you in the face. Feel victorious as you wish, but I'm gonna stand here smilling at how your 'points' as you call them, have amused me for a few days. ^.^

And Leon, I admit I only looked over your last 2 posts, just because I'm tired of arguing at this point. You obviously do your homework unlike Seraph who doesn't even bother to pay attention to the game and/or the movie..

I will say 3 things.., regardless of what materia is suppose to be, When it glows while it's being used in the movie, it is dead-set-center of their arm... So unless their arms are 1cm thick and the rest is suits, then that blows the theory that they junction on equipment. And the other thing is time stopped... For there to (For whatever reason) be all matter stoped, yet one object of matter moving, then they would be defieing physics itself, true, however I do believe it's possible, just not in the way others look at it... Time itself may not stop, but matter around them, as well as the matter that makes up humans, can be frozen. (Yet again, for/by whatever reason) And third is that I wasn't saying FFVIII was real and FFVII wasn't, as proved by my early comment on how both aren't real because technically they are pixels. I am saying the fight is unfair because Squall is based on FFVIII which is more realistic world, where as Cloud is from FFVII and is less realistic, so there is an unfair advantage.

However that's depending on whether you are including the movie or not, the game or not, the background of characters or not, the world that t hey are currently in, or what they are themselves, and only looking at two icons and saying a very vague, general, opinionated guess as to "who would win?"...
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Orothe wrote:
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 User is Offline Seraph   Post Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 9:36 pm
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LeonPayne wrote:
Actually both FF7 and FF8 are set to be sci-fi fantasy based, like Mr.Yoshinori mentioned because of the existence of these elements:
FF7: Jenova, Jenova cells, Different Planet theory, Mako, Spiritual energies, materia (condensed Mako), Magic (spiritual thoughts of the dead performed in physical way), supersoldiers (genetically engineered Soldiers),etc.
FF8: Time compression, time loop theory, sorcerers, magic, GFs, miraculous recoveries (like Rinoa at space),etc


This one shocked me. Can you explain how time is stopped? (not the STOP spell hehe) Is stopping time logic in the first place? If we relate Einstein's special relativity and general relativity, the concept of time depends on the spatial reference frame of the observer, and the human perception as well as the measurement by instruments such as clocks are different for observers in relative motion. If Squall is about to stop time, it'll affect the whole space too ya know. Other than that, its all fantasy.


Haha, great job. At last, somebody who know their stuff is talking. Unlikes someone who is half-baked sci-fi fan who so obssessed with logic in Final fantasy video game. Haha, we were having great fun until some lame one enter with all the stupid argument. Although im not knowledgable in the area of physic, i know that many concepts in FF games are cool but illogical. What you've said gave me the 200% assurance scientifically.

I think the job is done, no matter what Orothe raised about how FF 8 is more logical and all, he failed miserably to establish what he just said which made him look like a fool. Orothe, thank you for the comedy you brought to this thead Smile May God bless your stupidity
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 User is Offline LeonPayne   Post Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 3:59 am
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Well, I was trying my best to digest and understand what you guys meant when all the theories showed up. Honestly, I really find some of the theories interesting - like the one on Balamb Garden magnetic force (almost similar to maglev trains in Japan) and yeah it could be possible.

What I like more is the crazy ideas we all figured out, unlike some blunt statements of Cloud or Squall would win the fight. I mean the question mark is huge when one say "Cloud will win" or "Squall will win", then we tend to ask questions like why? how?

Lol, I wondered how far we've come to. I remembered those two being compared on their best limit breaks and such.

I totally forgot about FF Dissidia, thats another combined FF world game (Fighting genre) like Kingdom Hearts which has both Squall and Cloud. Check this out ^^:

Cloud lvl 100 vs Squall lvl 105

Link

Pretty cool huh? I don't know whats really happening in the fight lol, I saw Alexander for sure! And there was Omnislash v5 like in FF7AC..

Squall lvl 28 vs Cloud lvl 45

Link

Actually its just like any other fighting games, if you're good..no matter what characters you use you'll win. Even if its a handicapped fight, or the character is low profiled.

Hehe, even Squall could match with the all mighty Sephiroth. ^^

Link

Woot, they kept the Renzokuken trigger bar! Very Happy Go Squall! rock on dude

So, what I wanna emphasize here is the fight is not unfair if we bring them both into the same world. So why think hard, figuring out how to match two different worlds and such when you can just bring them both together and fight out? Lol, I'm sure FF Dissidia was formed based on popular requests from the fans...fans like us wanna see and experience Squall vs Cloud, Squall vs Sephiroth, Tidus vs Cloud, etc etc.
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 User is Offline Seraph   Post Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 11:09 am
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wow great job leon. i didnt know that there is a FF fighting game apart frm that Ezhergeiz (spelling). Dam, i left video game for too long. LOL. i dont see Squall's limit instant or slowing down or whatsoever. Haha, man, got to grab the game now.
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 User is Offline Orothe   Post Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 3:36 pm
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Seraph wrote:
Haha, great job. At last, somebody who know their stuff is talking. Unlikes someone who is half-baked sci-fi fan who so obssessed with logic in Final fantasy video game. Haha, we were having great fun until some lame one enter with all the stupid argument. Although im not knowledgable in the area of physic, i know that many concepts in FF games are cool but illogical. What you've said gave me the 200% assurance scientifically.

I think the job is done, no matter what Orothe raised about how FF 8 is more logical and all, he failed miserably to establish what he just said which made him look like a fool. Orothe, thank you for the comedy you brought to this thead May God bless your stupidity


Wow, All I really have to say to that is... I'm not a sci fi fan, I'm a video game player... And that calling someone a fool and asking god to bless someone's stupidity is odd comming from someone who didn't bother to use proper grammer or punctuation...

A tip for everyone. Don't be a fool, stay in school. =P

@Leon: Wow, I haven't even heard of that game.. I'm guessing it's only in japenese? Otherwise it would totally hit big in the USA. o.0 With the levels, that means there's exp, and looked like items being claimed at the end of the first one... And summons.. And different costumes.. Maybe it's like a Soul Calibur but Square Enix's version? o.0
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Orothe wrote:
Beauty can only be defined as the essence you hold, and not by the appearence you give...

Orothe wrote:
A rare gem such as yourself should never be given freely to those that would otherwise tarnish such beauty...

Orothe wrote:
Promise's are just words that people cling to in hopes that they are set in stone, when in reality, are as flexible as the air itself that carried those very words...
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 User is Offline Aruko   Post Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 9:17 pm
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Wow those are awesome ^^ I want this game XD
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 User is Offline Lara   Post Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 12:49 am
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The questioning of the illogicality of Final Fantasy games doesn’t make any sense; the answer of this ridiculous question simply lies in its name. The only reason FFVIII seems more realistic is because of its graphics, but in fact it’s not. It has every feature the other Final Fantasies have which proves that it’s a fantasy, just look at the simplest ones; magic and summons. Regardless to the idea of time travel or time compression which is more fictional than most of the things in FFVII since time travel is impossible for the time being and I think it will continue being like this. The idea may sound entertaining to read in novels (The Time Machine is awesome) or in physics theories or watch in a movie or play it in a video game but when it comes to logic and physics it’s not proven yet.… Other than this I agree with LeonPayne in what he said…

And it’s a matter of personal opinion when people discuss who is more powerful than whom. And I still stand by my opinion; there is more to the character than its power, limit breaks and the way it swings it sword or weapon Rolling Eyes.

LeonPayne wrote:
don't forget to read the theories on Cloud I posted Sad )

Firstly it’s 46 not 36.
Secondly; your theories may have some sides of correctness in most of them, but I never really heard before of “another species of human”. Humans are humans and that’s all to it. DNA can be damaged and effect the person in different ways but it doesn’t change the fact that they are still humans. Ones with genetic diseases or disorders or mutations we still refer to them as male or female, even with certain kinds of changes, sometimes huge changes, in their body or mind, but they are still humans.

I agree with what you said about how the Jenova cells could have affected Cloud’s DNA, that’s if he has a DNA in the first place lol. A change in his DNA is very possible, since the simplest environmental agents are able to cause a change or damage in DNA, think of what Jenova cells can do. It depends on the answer to the question “What are exactly Jenova cells are?” after all, but you went too far by saying “We need to study it” since that’s not going to happen; it’s a fantasy after all Razz

But with everything Cloud remains a human; a fictional human with great powers… it is very possible for a human to be crazily powerful and remains a human… in videogames world, so trying to compare pixelated characters’ powers and limits to what’s logic is ridiculous to begin with. Final Fantasy is far from being logical and so are its characters.

oh and...
LeonPayne wrote:
...Tidus vs Cloud

Laughing
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 User is Offline Seraph   Post Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 2:40 am
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Orothe wrote:


Wow, All I really have to say to that is... I'm not a sci fi fan, I'm a video game player... And that calling someone a fool and asking god to bless someone's stupidity is odd comming from someone who didn't bother to use proper grammer or punctuation...

A tip for everyone. Don't be a fool, stay in school. =P

@Leon: Wow, I haven't even heard of that game.. I'm guessing it's only in japenese? Otherwise it would totally hit big in the USA. o.0 With the levels, that means there's exp, and looked like items being claimed at the end of the first one... And summons.. And different costumes.. Maybe it's like a Soul Calibur but Square Enix's version? o.0


HAhaha, you are a video game player? please don't say that because you are a disgrace to video games with all your nonsense. Go home and brush up your science subject and don't wear a big hat when your head is not big enough. Well, it may be odd, but it is appropriate for someone who can't spell properly.

Yes Lara is right, questioning about logic in FF games are as stupid as you can get.
Something that you fit perfectly. At least that is proven. Very Happy
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 User is Offline LeonPayne   Post Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 6:38 am
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Lara wrote:
but I never really heard before of “another species of human”.

Humans, the homo sapiens is the current one. I think everyone knows that the homo is the genus while sapiens indicates the species. I think it'll be clear if we use the early humans for an example, take homo floresiensis and homo erectus as the early humans species (11,000 BC somewhere there). There is a popular topic on the decrease of Y-gene in human population, where the Y gene will disappear in 15 million years - creating man with XX genes. Man with XX genes can't mate with the opposite sex thus creating a mutation in the gene, bla bla bla bring to evolution and creating a new species of man. These processes however, is possible for a long period of time - like thousands, million years later.

Interesting huh? Smile You might see a new set of man in future, well if we get to live that long. Laughing

Aruko wrote:
Wow those are awesome ^^ I want this game XD

Its for PSP, cool huh? The reaction commands are almost similar to KH II. Its basically about Cosmos (the good guys like Tribal, Squall, Cloud, Zidane, Tidus, etc) vs Chaos (the bad guys like Sephiroth, Ultimecia, Kuja, Jecht, Garland, etc.) Smile

Orothe wrote:
I'm guessing it's only in japenese?

Yeah, the japanese version is out. The NA (north America) version is in making, the voice actors and such. ^^

+_+, damn still need a PSP for it. Why? Why PSP? Couldn't it be PS2? Couldn't it be PC? Hey, is there any PSP emulator? Laughing
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LeonPayne at 14:


LeonPayne at 20:


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 User is Offline Aruko   Post Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 11:55 am
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Aw I wanted a PSP cuz I wanted Crisis Core too XD
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