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 User is Offline LeonPayne   Post Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 12:26 am
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Actually the problem lies with the different mathematical calculation for the battle system in FFX, their stats are meant for a total different level. 1 STR in FFX is NOT equal to 1 STR in FF7 or FF8.

In FFX:
The Amount of damage dealt in physical attacks is given by:
[{(Str^3 / 32) + 32} x A Constant / 16]
So lets say its a normal Attack command, the Constant is 16 (fixed for Attack command) and Tidus has a 68 STR stat.

Damage = [{68^3 / 32 + 32} x 16 / 16]
= [{314,432 / 32 +32} x 1]
= 9858

The Tidus at 256 STR stat,

Damage = [{256^3 / 32 + 32} x 16/16]
= [{16,777,216 / 32 +32} x 1]
= 524,320

In FF7:
Base Damage = Atk + [(Atk + Lvl) / 32] x [(Atk x Lvl) / 32]

where Atk = Str stat + Weapon Atk Bonus

So lets say its a normal Attack command, and Cloud at lvl 99 with 256 Str stat using Ultima Weapon blade.
Atk = 100 + 256
Damage = 356 + [(356 + 99) / 32] x [(356 x 99) / 32]
= 16,148

In comparison, even Cloud's attack is piercing the most he can deal is 9999 x 4 like Seraph said. With no break damage limit he couldn't perform a 16,148 damage attack. Hoho, we haven't compared the damage reduction. Lol, one thing for sure both Squall and Cloud can't even lay a single finger on Tidus if his EVA stats is at 256. Why bother dealing 9999 damage when his VIT stat is at 256?

Tidus needs a STR stat somewhere around 70 - 75 for a One-Hit KO to Squall and Cloud. He doesn't need a full 256 STR for it. Squall and Cloud on the other hand, needs a full 256 STR stat along with their best weapon to play "Lets Tickle Tidus to death!".
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 User is Offline Shuun   Post Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 12:36 pm
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Seesh and your smart too, lawls, y ou sound like you play ragnarok, but yeah, good point, lawls
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 User is Offline Seraph   Post Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 9:47 am
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Shuun wrote:
Seesh and your smart too, lawls, y ou sound like you play ragnarok, but yeah, good point, lawls


of coz he is. he's my best pal and i can assure you that he's very good at science and maths. hahaha.
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 User is Offline Kuro Ryu   Post Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 3:39 pm
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how about a wild card to those calculations leon made. what about FF9's Zidane in trance mode? would he be beating anyone?

im curious as to which calculation apply to FF9 and then theres the fact that trance gives multipliers to ther attack values (especially steiner he does like 3X his normal damage)

and also quite amusingly Leons theory of FF lesson has told us that yuna could beat seven shades of crap out of cloud and squall with just her staff, nevermind her aeons
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 User is Offline armypunk95   Post Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 10:25 pm
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yeah cloud was a weakling until he got some mako lol and if he can beat sephiroth twice! squal peice of CAKE! but squal is cool and he sumons. but cloud wins Very Happy
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 User is Offline LeonPayne   Post Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 7:51 am
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Armypunk95, thats an interesting statement you said there and I've seen many like them..I'd suggest reading through the topic pages to get some brief info on why both sides stand a chance to win if they fight each other...
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 User is Offline Seraph   Post Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 11:41 am
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lol give chance la. shes only 13.
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 User is Offline THC1989   Post Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 3:13 pm
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I would like to start by apologising for any bad grammar as English is not my first language.

Hmm it seems you have left the original topic but I’ll allow myself to comment on it anyway. I will start by commenting on the ‘marbles’ that you supposedly attach to your body as seen in I Advent children (AC). As far as I am concerned AC was crappy movie made with the main purpose to lure money from the many fans world over who had truly loved FF VII, but this is not a discussion about AC. In FF VII the crystallized mako/lifestream(materia) was attached to your weapon, which in turn would explain how Yuffie was able to steal it, as it would seem rather difficult (no matter what an excellent thief Yuffie is) to steal something placed beneath your skin(or entirely absorbed by your body). So if I have to choose between materia being placed in the weapon, as seen in the game, or placed beneath the skin and muscle tissue, as seen in the movie, I would allow the game to overrule the movie, because the movie is based on the game.

Mentally I would say that Squall should be considered stronger than Cloud, which no matter how you place it, is an important factor during close combat. What I base this statement on is; that Squall was able (if you played the game as I did) to withstand the electrical torture he suffered by the hands of Seifer. Cloud on the other hand seems rather unstable; this could be due to the fact that his body was infected/poisoned with cells of an alien lifeform, which made all infected lose some of their self-control. He took up the identity of his dead friend and entirely forgot most of his own past, this could be due to the fact that he was infected with the unstable life form, had just had an close-death experience, just witnessed his close friend being shoot, the poisoning of mako (and as we see in the game an uncontrolled dozes of mako can make a person mentally unstable) or just the simple fact that the entire social structure he believed in had just come crushing down, with the betrayal of Shin-Ra. No matter which of these reasons you choose Cloud seems unstable, furthermore he lacks the ability to separate his fantasies (him being a 1st class soldier) and what actually is, this could be explained by brain trauma, but who knows. I am not saying that Squall is mentally well functioning or mentally well. He to apparently have forgotten great chunks of his past, but this is explained by the use of GF, which apparently can make the user experience loss of memory. This could be explained by: that the GF places itself inside the brain, occupying the nerve cells that would have allowed the access to childhood memories, which then could explain why the character are able to ‘remember’/know the abilities of the GH, but unable to when it is removed. The GF simply places it’s presence in a way that allow the user to access the GF mentally but then cannot access his childhood memories because the nerve cells has been occupied by something else.
So it appears to me that there is a lot of reason to believe that Squall should be considered superior to Cloud when it comes to who is mentally best suited for battle.

Then we come to the eternal discussion about limit breaks and brute strength. Considering that you cannot compare how much damage the two does because they are from two different environments and games. I will look at the enemies they defeat. Squall ends up on several occasions, battling godlike creatures (GF). If we should take some of the name references seen in the game literally, then Squall actually fights a god, namely the old Scandinavian god Odin. Squall defeats and enslave the mighty Odin, plus he defeats a creature able to compress time itself. By my opinion Cloud has nothing even worth comparing. Now I can hear all the small voices scream “what about Sephiroth?” And yes what about him? He’s a lunatic suffering from believes of grandeur, he’s merely a human foetus infected with alien cells, the power he tries to destroy Gaia with, is not even his own, but just an old materia he had stolen.

Squall is no where close my favourite character, to me he appears like a sulking, teenage boy with an attitude that seems extreme and rehearsed. But nonetheless I think he would defeat cloud.

At least that’s my opinion.
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 User is Offline cuatro175   Post Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 9:54 pm
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lol never thought that deep about this subject...but now i completely agree with u...

and if they say: but cloud beated sephiroth =P....squall could beat sephiroth as easily as cloud did it...or more ¬¬
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 User is Offline THC1989   Post Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 11:01 am
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cuatro175 wrote:
lol never thought that deep about this subject...but now i completely agree with u...


Glad to hear you agree with me in that Squall is a sulking teenager Wink
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 User is Offline cuatro175   Post Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 3:35 pm
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lol...i agree with u, except in that =P....squall may be antisocial and meant at the beggining...but then when rinoa's about to die he shows his true fellings and he becomes a good person Sad ...so dont be so tough on squall 99 (99 is a msn face lol)
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 User is Offline Seraph   Post Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 9:44 pm
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THC1989 wrote:
I would like to start by apologising for any bad grammar as English is not my first language.

Hmm it seems you have left the original topic but I’ll allow myself to comment on it anyway. I will start by commenting on the ‘marbles’ that you supposedly attach to your body as seen in I Advent children (AC). As far as I am concerned AC was crappy movie made with the main purpose to lure money from the many fans world over who had truly loved FF VII, but this is not a discussion about AC. In FF VII the crystallized mako/lifestream(materia) was attached to your weapon, which in turn would explain how Yuffie was able to steal it, as it would seem rather difficult (no matter what an excellent thief Yuffie is) to steal something placed beneath your skin(or entirely absorbed by your body). So if I have to choose between materia being placed in the weapon, as seen in the game, or placed beneath the skin and muscle tissue, as seen in the movie, I would allow the game to overrule the movie, because the movie is based on the game.

Mentally I would say that Squall should be considered stronger than Cloud, which no matter how you place it, is an important factor during close combat. What I base this statement on is; that Squall was able (if you played the game as I did) to withstand the electrical torture he suffered by the hands of Seifer. Cloud on the other hand seems rather unstable; this could be due to the fact that his body was infected/poisoned with cells of an alien lifeform, which made all infected lose some of their self-control. He took up the identity of his dead friend and entirely forgot most of his own past, this could be due to the fact that he was infected with the unstable life form, had just had an close-death experience, just witnessed his close friend being shoot, the poisoning of mako (and as we see in the game an uncontrolled dozes of mako can make a person mentally unstable) or just the simple fact that the entire social structure he believed in had just come crushing down, with the betrayal of Shin-Ra. No matter which of these reasons you choose Cloud seems unstable, furthermore he lacks the ability to separate his fantasies (him being a 1st class soldier) and what actually is, this could be explained by brain trauma, but who knows. I am not saying that Squall is mentally well functioning or mentally well. He to apparently have forgotten great chunks of his past, but this is explained by the use of GF, which apparently can make the user experience loss of memory. This could be explained by: that the GF places itself inside the brain, occupying the nerve cells that would have allowed the access to childhood memories, which then could explain why the character are able to ‘remember’/know the abilities of the GH, but unable to when it is removed. The GF simply places it’s presence in a way that allow the user to access the GF mentally but then cannot access his childhood memories because the nerve cells has been occupied by something else.
So it appears to me that there is a lot of reason to believe that Squall should be considered superior to Cloud when it comes to who is mentally best suited for battle.

Then we come to the eternal discussion about limit breaks and brute strength. Considering that you cannot compare how much damage the two does because they are from two different environments and games. I will look at the enemies they defeat. Squall ends up on several occasions, battling godlike creatures (GF). If we should take some of the name references seen in the game literally, then Squall actually fights a god, namely the old Scandinavian god Odin. Squall defeats and enslave the mighty Odin, plus he defeats a creature able to compress time itself. By my opinion Cloud has nothing even worth comparing. Now I can hear all the small voices scream “what about Sephiroth?” And yes what about him? He’s a lunatic suffering from believes of grandeur, he’s merely a human foetus infected with alien cells, the power he tries to destroy Gaia with, is not even his own, but just an old materia he had stolen.

Squall is no where close my favourite character, to me he appears like a sulking, teenage boy with an attitude that seems extreme and rehearsed. But nonetheless I think he would defeat cloud.

At least that’s my opinion.


Very Happy Hey man, that is a good theory. Dont worry too much about grammar here, not everyone here is a native english speaker. You are the first one who argue that game overule the movie because the movie is based on the game. LOL unlike certain confused person.

Your theory is one way to look at the duel. Nice one
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 User is Offline THC1989   Post Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 12:34 pm
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Seraph wrote:


Very Happy Hey man, that is a good theory. Dont worry too much about grammar here, not everyone here is a native english speaker. You are the first one who argue that game overule the movie because the movie is based on the game. LOL unlike certain confused person.

Your theory is one way to look at the duel. Nice one


Hehe thank you Very Happy
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 User is Offline Sephsta   Post Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 6:45 pm
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Cloud Kicks Squall's ass
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 User is Offline THC1989   Post Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 3:23 pm
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Sephsta wrote:
Cloud Kicks Squall's ass


It's always nice with a well augmented statement.. hehe Wink
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